1 00:00:09,330 --> 00:00:12,090 Announcer: Thanks for joining the Re-Think and Re-Tool podcast 2 00:00:12,090 --> 00:00:15,900 with Mehul Mankad, MD where we take a look at the people side 3 00:00:15,900 --> 00:00:19,080 of healthcare and new ideas about enhancing overall 4 00:00:19,080 --> 00:00:22,740 wellbeing. So welcome. The doctor is in the house. 5 00:00:24,820 --> 00:00:27,970 Mehul Mankad: Welcome to the Re-Think and Re-Tool podcast 6 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:32,170 sponsored by Alliance Health. I'm your host, Mehul Mankad, 7 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:36,250 psychiatrist and Chief Medical Officer for Alliance. And I want 8 00:00:36,250 --> 00:00:41,110 to start today's episode with a question. What happens when the 9 00:00:41,110 --> 00:00:46,570 ninth most populous state in the US chooses a Secretary of Health 10 00:00:46,570 --> 00:00:51,460 and Human Services with lived experience? Like me, you've 11 00:00:51,460 --> 00:00:55,540 probably been hearing more and more about this idea of social 12 00:00:55,540 --> 00:00:59,200 determinants of health sometimes called social drivers of health. 13 00:00:59,710 --> 00:01:03,940 The concept essentially says that issues such as affordable 14 00:01:03,940 --> 00:01:09,220 housing, access to healthy food, neighborhood safety and other 15 00:01:09,250 --> 00:01:14,830 factors have a greater effect on health outcomes than what we 16 00:01:14,830 --> 00:01:18,370 think of as standard health care interventions like doctor 17 00:01:18,370 --> 00:01:23,710 visits. That's a bold statement, especially since we are 18 00:01:23,710 --> 00:01:30,160 approaching a $4 trillion a year budget for health care spending 19 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:35,200 in this country. To say the secretary Kody Kinsley came from 20 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:38,920 modest beginnings would be an undersell of his background. 21 00:01:39,430 --> 00:01:42,940 Secretary Kinsley didn't have health insurance until he 22 00:01:42,940 --> 00:01:48,070 reached his 20s. He now oversees the health care of approximately 23 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:52,810 2 million North Carolinians who access Medicaid and CHIP 24 00:01:52,810 --> 00:01:57,880 benefits. So how does a first generation college graduate? 25 00:01:58,030 --> 00:02:02,530 Think about social drivers of health? Where does the national 26 00:02:02,530 --> 00:02:08,650 conversation of purchasing health not just health care fit 27 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:13,600 into the plans Secretary Kinsley has for North Carolina. Let's 28 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:19,120 find out. Secretary Kinsley, thank you so much for joining us 29 00:02:19,150 --> 00:02:23,470 on The Re-Think and Re-Tool podcast by Alliance Health. 30 00:02:24,310 --> 00:02:26,710 Kody Kinsley: Thanks, Mehul. It's so wonderful to be here 31 00:02:26,710 --> 00:02:27,100 with you. 32 00:02:27,430 --> 00:02:33,340 Unknown: Yeah, absolutely. And so in your role as the Secretary 33 00:02:33,340 --> 00:02:37,360 for Health and Human Services for the state of North Carolina, 34 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:41,560 the ninth most populous state in the union, did I get all of 35 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:42,880 that? Right? I think I got it right. 36 00:02:42,940 --> 00:02:44,980 Kody Kinsley: So far, so good. Okay, good, good, 37 00:02:45,010 --> 00:02:49,030 Mehul Mankad: Awesome. Tell us what's on your mind these days. 38 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:57,700 Kody Kinsley: You know, I think about North Carolinians, like my 39 00:02:57,700 --> 00:03:02,230 mom, and my dad, and my brother and my grandmother, who all you 40 00:03:02,230 --> 00:03:05,140 know, live in different places across North Carolina, and the 41 00:03:05,140 --> 00:03:09,490 experiences that they have had over the last several years, as 42 00:03:09,490 --> 00:03:13,570 we have been battling against COVID-19. You know, they've each 43 00:03:13,570 --> 00:03:18,340 had very different experiences, you know, my mom, you know, she 44 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:22,030 found her work incredibly disrupted, she cleaned houses 45 00:03:22,030 --> 00:03:26,710 and made it very difficult for her to do that work. And to the 46 00:03:26,710 --> 00:03:29,200 point where she's just pretty much given up on working and 47 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:32,380 gone into retirement a bit earlier than she wanted. And, 48 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:37,300 and that has been partly also facilitated by some medical 49 00:03:37,300 --> 00:03:40,180 issues she was having with her knees. And, you know, I think 50 00:03:40,180 --> 00:03:44,050 about my my grandmother who was in a adult care home and her 51 00:03:44,050 --> 00:03:48,280 experience through this. And I think about my brother, who, you 52 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:51,670 know, works for a construction company and travels all across 53 00:03:51,670 --> 00:03:56,800 the Carolinas doing work, and has been around a lot of 54 00:03:56,800 --> 00:03:59,020 different folks with a lot of different opinions about the 55 00:03:59,020 --> 00:04:02,410 state of the pandemic and how to move forward. So I think in my 56 00:04:02,410 --> 00:04:06,280 little focus group of my family, you know, I think about the, 57 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:08,290 what recovery means to them. 58 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:13,390 Mehul Mankad: So this is not you know, when I am like a consumer 59 00:04:13,390 --> 00:04:17,410 who ingests things that you write, or that your team 60 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:22,870 produces, you know, I see you as a senior healthcare executive, 61 00:04:23,350 --> 00:04:28,840 as a policy machine. But this is personal for you. 62 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:32,380 Kody Kinsley: I, you know, I had the great privilege of coming 63 00:04:32,380 --> 00:04:36,730 home to North Carolina, four years ago after doing a tour of 64 00:04:36,730 --> 00:04:41,410 duty in DC and, you know, and it's a state as a duty to 65 00:04:41,410 --> 00:04:45,400 continue to do this work and to pay forward to the state that 66 00:04:45,580 --> 00:04:47,200 made such a difference in my life. 67 00:04:47,890 --> 00:04:50,560 Mehul Mankad: And so you, you were saying the word recovery, 68 00:04:50,590 --> 00:04:54,550 and what recovery means to you and to your family and to the 69 00:04:54,550 --> 00:04:59,650 other 9 million plus North Carolinians. What What do you 70 00:04:59,650 --> 00:05:00,310 mean by that? 71 00:05:01,030 --> 00:05:04,270 Kody Kinsley: So I think it starts with with building on 72 00:05:04,570 --> 00:05:07,780 some of the things that came out of our response to COVID. Right. 73 00:05:07,780 --> 00:05:09,970 You know, I like to look back at the work that we did during 74 00:05:09,970 --> 00:05:13,810 COVID. And I call certain things Crisi-tunities. You know, we 75 00:05:13,810 --> 00:05:18,100 were able to advance collaborative partnerships that 76 00:05:18,100 --> 00:05:21,580 we've never had before, we worked with people connected 77 00:05:21,580 --> 00:05:26,290 with folks built systems that we had never done in the past, we 78 00:05:26,290 --> 00:05:30,340 also were able to build data and accountability systems that 79 00:05:30,340 --> 00:05:33,610 we've never had before, you know, measuring the course of 80 00:05:33,610 --> 00:05:37,960 the pandemic, you know, standing up wastewater surveillance and a 81 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:40,930 number of other novel tracking mechanisms that we've not had, 82 00:05:40,930 --> 00:05:44,320 and then analyze and share that data publicly in ways that we 83 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:48,280 couldn't. And then we were also able to build a channel of 84 00:05:48,280 --> 00:05:51,520 communication with the public more people know about our 85 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:55,930 department now than they probably ever have before. So I 86 00:05:55,930 --> 00:06:00,580 think foundationally recovery starts by how do we build on 87 00:06:00,580 --> 00:06:04,090 those operational building blocks to look ahead? 88 00:06:04,410 --> 00:06:06,930 Mehul Mankad: That's great. And so you know, what I was hearing 89 00:06:06,930 --> 00:06:11,130 two years ago about your department is that you did 10 90 00:06:11,130 --> 00:06:15,540 years of work and two weeks. And I think what I'm hearing from 91 00:06:15,540 --> 00:06:20,970 you now is, let's not lose momentum. If we have made these 92 00:06:20,970 --> 00:06:24,930 partnerships and collaborations and broken ground on, you know, 93 00:06:24,930 --> 00:06:28,260 for example, telehealth flexibilities and other things 94 00:06:28,260 --> 00:06:32,820 well beyond health care. Where do we take it from here to keep 95 00:06:32,820 --> 00:06:36,510 improving the lives of people in North Carolina? 96 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:39,960 Kody Kinsley: That's right. And you know, we have a great 97 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:43,170 teaching or learning moment in the pandemic, to recognize that 98 00:06:43,170 --> 00:06:45,660 health is so much more than the health care that you get at a 99 00:06:45,660 --> 00:06:48,570 doctor's office, that's important, and more people in 100 00:06:48,570 --> 00:06:51,270 North Carolina should have access to that in an affordable 101 00:06:51,270 --> 00:06:54,990 way than they do. But we also learned in the pandemic that, 102 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:59,310 you know, my ability to have paid time off impacts my health, 103 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:05,970 my ability to have access to healthy food, impacts my health, 104 00:07:06,570 --> 00:07:10,530 it also impacts my neighbor's health, right. And our 105 00:07:10,530 --> 00:07:14,070 investments in those drivers of health are not only important, 106 00:07:14,340 --> 00:07:17,790 but they're high value investments. And we know that 107 00:07:18,300 --> 00:07:23,790 food, transportation, employment and safety are core fundamental 108 00:07:23,790 --> 00:07:27,810 drivers of health and our ability to put dollars and 109 00:07:27,810 --> 00:07:32,640 resources and programs into those is renders better health 110 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:36,240 outcomes for people. And it's also just a really good 111 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:40,920 investment for the state. Yeah, that's interesting. Oh, no, no, 112 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:42,090 no, that's good. Go ahead. 113 00:07:42,390 --> 00:07:44,880 Mehul Mankad: So you know, you're, you're saying that 114 00:07:45,060 --> 00:07:48,240 things like, and I might throw in affordable housing in there 115 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:55,890 as well. But food security, housing, public safety, access 116 00:07:55,890 --> 00:08:00,210 to the outdoors, those sorts of things are actually on your 117 00:08:00,210 --> 00:08:05,370 radar. So you're not just kind of thinking of health, as you 118 00:08:05,370 --> 00:08:07,650 know, going to the doctor's office and getting your blood 119 00:08:07,650 --> 00:08:09,210 pressure checked. That's right. 120 00:08:09,210 --> 00:08:12,660 Kody Kinsley: I mean, our country spends more on health 121 00:08:12,690 --> 00:08:17,580 care than any others, yet, core measures of health are lower 122 00:08:17,580 --> 00:08:21,660 than many, you know, we were clearly not putting our dollars 123 00:08:21,660 --> 00:08:26,070 in the place where it matters most. And so from the front end, 124 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:29,220 you know, investing more in those drivers of health matter, 125 00:08:29,220 --> 00:08:34,200 but also looking at the impacts and measuring, you know, where 126 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:36,210 our dollars are getting spent, right, people who end up 127 00:08:36,210 --> 00:08:39,030 experiencing homelessness and the dollars that our social 128 00:08:39,030 --> 00:08:43,320 safety systems serve for those populations. You know, it's very 129 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:49,050 expensive, investing in upfront healthcare services that prevent 130 00:08:49,050 --> 00:08:53,310 that need, in the end, a better investment. Similar with our 131 00:08:53,310 --> 00:08:57,240 justice system, you know, 70% of people in our justice system 132 00:08:57,240 --> 00:09:00,840 have a substance use disorder, right, investing in the front 133 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:05,070 end, around diversion and health and recovery and connections to 134 00:09:05,070 --> 00:09:08,550 employment that help prevent substance use disorders, much 135 00:09:08,550 --> 00:09:13,950 cheaper than sustaining jails and prisons to that degree, we 136 00:09:13,950 --> 00:09:17,490 have an opportunity to really shift how we spend our dollars 137 00:09:17,490 --> 00:09:20,220 and invest in the things that matter. And for me, that is what 138 00:09:20,220 --> 00:09:21,870 recovery begins to look like. 139 00:09:22,470 --> 00:09:25,230 Mehul Mankad: Wow. So I guess what I'm hearing from you is 140 00:09:25,230 --> 00:09:29,670 that sometimes, when when the stars align for one reason, in, 141 00:09:29,670 --> 00:09:34,260 you know, in this case, maybe COVID, you can really use that 142 00:09:34,290 --> 00:09:39,600 as a force multiplier to to achieve other games that that we 143 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:41,160 should have been doing all along. 144 00:09:41,730 --> 00:09:44,160 Kody Kinsley: Well, you know, I think the again, one of the 145 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:48,150 major crisis eternities of COVID was that it gave us all a united 146 00:09:48,390 --> 00:09:54,240 vision of what we needed to do. We had to focus and as we look 147 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:58,860 ahead, I see three areas that we have to focus on to really get 148 00:09:58,860 --> 00:10:02,400 maximum value First and foremost is behavioral health, right the 149 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:05,040 substance use and mental health issues that we're all facing and 150 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:10,170 all experiencing. Far too languished issues that we must 151 00:10:10,170 --> 00:10:12,840 address that are high impact high value opportunities. 152 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:15,930 Second, specific to Child and Family Well Being we've had a 153 00:10:15,930 --> 00:10:21,240 generation of children impacted by this experience. And we know 154 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:24,690 that they struggle with their resiliency more than adults do, 155 00:10:24,690 --> 00:10:29,430 because they just have less life experience to build on. And then 156 00:10:29,430 --> 00:10:33,540 last, but certainly not least, is reinvesting in our workforce. 157 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:37,440 Everybody knows a nurse or a CNA, or somebody who was on the 158 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:40,560 frontlines of this pandemic stepping up for us. And now we 159 00:10:40,560 --> 00:10:42,840 have to invest back in them to me as we survey the 160 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:46,560 opportunities of things we can do the endless opportunities of 161 00:10:46,590 --> 00:10:49,590 problems we can solve. If we focus our efforts in those three 162 00:10:49,590 --> 00:10:53,400 areas, I see an opportunity for us to really catapult forward 163 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:55,110 and recover stronger as a state. 164 00:10:55,650 --> 00:10:58,110 Mehul Mankad: That sounds amazing. I want to get more into 165 00:10:58,110 --> 00:11:03,300 that. But for a minute, we're just going to break away to hear 166 00:11:04,170 --> 00:11:09,600 from our sponsor, Alliance health, and when we come back, 167 00:11:09,630 --> 00:11:14,070 we're going to start with a guilty pleasure of Secretary 168 00:11:14,070 --> 00:11:16,140 Kinsley, be right back. 169 00:11:17,159 --> 00:11:20,069 Unknown: At Alliance, we see healthcare differently than 170 00:11:20,069 --> 00:11:24,179 sound. Every day we walk alongside the people we serve on 171 00:11:24,179 --> 00:11:28,349 their chosen path to recovery and self determination. We 172 00:11:28,349 --> 00:11:30,929 believe in health care that concentrates on the whole 173 00:11:30,929 --> 00:11:35,699 person, including support that promotes physical, social, 174 00:11:36,119 --> 00:11:40,349 emotional, and financial well being and housing security, 175 00:11:41,099 --> 00:11:45,029 helping people live healthier, more satisfying lives. That's 176 00:11:45,029 --> 00:11:45,959 the Alliance way. 177 00:11:48,539 --> 00:11:55,529 Mehul Mankad: Secretary Kinsley, thank you for coming back. I 178 00:11:55,529 --> 00:12:02,129 said that we would ask you a tough personal question. Yeah, 179 00:12:02,159 --> 00:12:06,629 you're ready. I know you've you've you've been through the 180 00:12:06,629 --> 00:12:08,999 ringer. You've been asked a lot of different things. It's been 181 00:12:08,999 --> 00:12:11,669 hard to sleep knowing this was coming. Right. Yeah. Right. 182 00:12:11,669 --> 00:12:17,009 Right. So and I will I'll put it this way. If if, if you tell me 183 00:12:17,009 --> 00:12:23,609 yours, I'll. I'll tell you mine. Your favorite flavor of ice 184 00:12:23,609 --> 00:12:23,909 cream? 185 00:12:27,659 --> 00:12:31,529 Kody Kinsley: Unequivocally pistachio? Oh, you're kidding. 186 00:12:31,769 --> 00:12:33,569 It's terrific. Wow, 187 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:35,310 Mehul Mankad: What is it about pistachio? 188 00:12:35,580 --> 00:12:37,290 Kody Kinsley: Well, you know, it's green, which is the color 189 00:12:37,290 --> 00:12:45,540 of mental health awareness. So it's, it's, it's a healthy ice 190 00:12:45,540 --> 00:12:46,320 cream option. 191 00:12:46,590 --> 00:12:48,630 Mehul Mankad: Of course, it's healthy. Yeah. Right. As all ice 192 00:12:48,630 --> 00:12:50,940 creams are right. You know, dairy. 193 00:12:53,340 --> 00:12:55,860 Kody Kinsley: healthy bones. Yeah, I don't know. You know, I 194 00:12:55,860 --> 00:13:02,490 think I think that I've always just, you know, a little bit odd 195 00:13:02,490 --> 00:13:06,840 ice cream, honestly. Okay, I'm gonna make a change. I think my 196 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:11,760 favorite ice cream that I can never find anywhere is sweet 197 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:16,290 corn. Oh, my goodness. That sounds amazing. When I was 198 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:20,670 living far, far away in California, in graduate school, 199 00:13:20,700 --> 00:13:25,080 there was a ice cream place. And in the summer, after corn 200 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:28,290 season, they would make sweet corn ice cream. And it was just 201 00:13:28,290 --> 00:13:30,420 terrific. But it's so interesting and puzzling to like 202 00:13:30,420 --> 00:13:35,280 be eating a vegetable ice cream and our starchy ice cream. But 203 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:37,620 it was it was terrific. So what about you? What What's your so 204 00:13:37,620 --> 00:13:37,890 yeah, 205 00:13:37,890 --> 00:13:40,290 Mehul Mankad: so for me, it's also one that I can never I can 206 00:13:40,290 --> 00:13:44,430 get in December. It's peppermint ice cream. And it has to have 207 00:13:44,430 --> 00:13:45,870 little bits of candy cane. 208 00:13:48,810 --> 00:13:51,690 Kody Kinsley: So interesting. You know, candy canes are not my 209 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:55,470 my candy or thing. You like candy canes by themselves? 210 00:13:56,010 --> 00:13:57,870 Mehul Mankad: Not so much just in the ice cream? 211 00:14:00,030 --> 00:14:01,350 Kody Kinsley: I don't do I don't eat corn. 212 00:14:05,100 --> 00:14:09,900 Mehul Mankad: So to coming back to those those three things that 213 00:14:09,900 --> 00:14:15,750 you were mentioning? I'd love to know, you know, where do we go 214 00:14:15,750 --> 00:14:22,080 from here? You mentioned mental health children. And I believe, 215 00:14:22,950 --> 00:14:27,420 kind of livelihood or job job training force workforce. And it 216 00:14:27,420 --> 00:14:30,750 was that I'm sorry, it was that the healthcare workforce or just 217 00:14:30,750 --> 00:14:31,890 the workforce in general? 218 00:14:32,070 --> 00:14:34,470 Kody Kinsley: Great question. Thank you. I think that I think 219 00:14:34,470 --> 00:14:37,800 we have to, obviously, we have got to focus on our healthcare 220 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:40,290 workforce. You know, I think about the gaps that we have in 221 00:14:40,290 --> 00:14:44,880 nurses but also direct support professionals, you know, and 222 00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:48,780 building that pipeline. But, you know, we also know going back to 223 00:14:48,780 --> 00:14:53,010 that concept of drivers of health that work is a driver of 224 00:14:53,010 --> 00:14:57,960 health. And, you know, right now, tightest labor market in a 225 00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:01,290 generation. Yeah, we've got a lot of Folks that have a 226 00:15:01,290 --> 00:15:06,510 disability, or in recovery, who are systematically left out of 227 00:15:06,510 --> 00:15:11,700 the workforce, and we have an opportunity, not only for our 228 00:15:11,700 --> 00:15:15,510 economy, but more importantly for their health, to give them a 229 00:15:15,510 --> 00:15:19,830 pathway to a job. And I know that, you know, we have 230 00:15:19,830 --> 00:15:23,610 employers that are, you know, investing a lot of resources and 231 00:15:23,610 --> 00:15:27,750 talent, recruitment, big and recent, you know, incentive 232 00:15:27,750 --> 00:15:32,190 bonuses, increase pay, you know, those dollars can also go to 233 00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:36,390 accommodations and supports that help bring people into the 234 00:15:36,390 --> 00:15:40,050 workforce that may have stepped out of the workforce because of 235 00:15:40,050 --> 00:15:45,060 an injury or disability. And, and I think there's an 236 00:15:45,060 --> 00:15:48,150 opportunity for us to do that, that will pay a lot of dividends 237 00:15:48,150 --> 00:15:52,320 for people, and for the people of North Carolina. 238 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:56,790 Mehul Mankad: That's an that's a really interesting idea. And you 239 00:15:56,790 --> 00:16:00,690 know, the name of the podcast is Re-Think and Re-Tool. So I think 240 00:16:00,690 --> 00:16:06,150 the innovation that I'm hearing from you is for us to expand the 241 00:16:06,150 --> 00:16:12,420 definition of who is eligible to work. And to be more creative 242 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:19,080 with whom we seek in in the workforce, and not to be as 243 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:19,890 restrictive. 244 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:22,860 Kody Kinsley: Well, I think with with each of our priorities, and 245 00:16:22,860 --> 00:16:25,500 I think this goes back to the idea of investing in things that 246 00:16:25,500 --> 00:16:30,240 give us value, you know, we, we tackle, we tend to tackle 247 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:34,530 problems head on, but often coming up the true problem means 248 00:16:34,530 --> 00:16:38,550 coming from the side, right, so we have big workforce gaps, what 249 00:16:38,550 --> 00:16:41,700 do we do to think creatively about bringing more people into 250 00:16:41,700 --> 00:16:44,610 the workforce? How does that help a lot of folks in a lot of 251 00:16:44,610 --> 00:16:48,060 different ways, with children, you know, we build a lot of 252 00:16:48,060 --> 00:16:51,360 supports around children, to the point where children are getting 253 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:53,310 wrapped around all these different systems that don't 254 00:16:53,310 --> 00:16:56,580 work well together, right? How do we build and invest in 255 00:16:56,580 --> 00:16:58,800 systems that bring those things together? And how do we 256 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:02,220 recognize that perhaps the most important foundational aspects 257 00:17:02,220 --> 00:17:06,360 of a healthy child is a healthy family? And how do we invest in 258 00:17:06,360 --> 00:17:11,100 parents, supports for substance use disorder, professional 259 00:17:11,100 --> 00:17:14,250 parenting, a number of other things that help sustain and 260 00:17:14,250 --> 00:17:17,400 build healthy kids, by having healthy families and breaking 261 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:20,880 those cycles of trauma? You know, and last, but certainly 262 00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:25,500 not least, is on mental health. I think behavioral health, you 263 00:17:25,500 --> 00:17:31,230 know, broadly, we've seen a lot of folks unfortunately, fall out 264 00:17:31,230 --> 00:17:34,290 of recovery from their substance use disorder or fall back into 265 00:17:34,290 --> 00:17:36,810 more serious mental illness issues, because they've lost 266 00:17:36,810 --> 00:17:39,030 routines, they've lost employment, they've lost 267 00:17:39,270 --> 00:17:43,410 housing. And so investing in those things, destabilize that 268 00:17:43,770 --> 00:17:48,780 matter. So So I'm interested in in rethinking and retooling, how 269 00:17:48,780 --> 00:17:52,950 we target our interventions, and going to the highest value 270 00:17:52,950 --> 00:17:54,990 opportunity to make a difference. 271 00:17:56,190 --> 00:18:00,540 Mehul Mankad: That's remarkable. And I think that piece, for me 272 00:18:00,540 --> 00:18:06,660 that that sinks in is this idea that pursuing better health 273 00:18:06,660 --> 00:18:11,280 outcomes is more than what happens with health care 274 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:14,310 providers, we really have to think much more broadly. 275 00:18:15,150 --> 00:18:17,160 Kody Kinsley: That's right. And I think that, you know, it can 276 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:20,190 be hard, it can be daunting, because you know, where do you 277 00:18:20,190 --> 00:18:24,480 start? And I think I go back to, you know, if we can organize 278 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:27,840 around some key domains, right, I think the ones that are really 279 00:18:27,990 --> 00:18:33,750 not just proven to be impactful, but ready for investment, are 280 00:18:33,750 --> 00:18:38,910 employment, food, interpersonal safety, and transportation, you 281 00:18:38,910 --> 00:18:41,460 know, and I agree that housing is also really important, as are 282 00:18:41,460 --> 00:18:44,550 other things, but you know, where we start matters. And if 283 00:18:44,550 --> 00:18:47,550 we can have some concerted effort around that, not just 284 00:18:47,550 --> 00:18:49,170 what we're doing at the department, what we're doing our 285 00:18:49,170 --> 00:18:51,360 partners like Alliance and others, and what we're doing 286 00:18:51,360 --> 00:18:55,950 beyond that, our employer partners gives us a great 287 00:18:55,950 --> 00:19:00,120 opportunity to just like in COVID, try to move 10 years in 288 00:19:00,120 --> 00:19:04,110 two weeks time, how do we make some leapfrog forwards here, and 289 00:19:04,110 --> 00:19:05,670 make some big difference for folks? 290 00:19:07,230 --> 00:19:10,920 Mehul Mankad: That's fantastic. Now, what I'd love to hear from 291 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:21,300 you as as we close, today's time together, is something that gets 292 00:19:21,300 --> 00:19:26,220 you going, you know, why do you do the work that you do? You 293 00:19:26,220 --> 00:19:29,070 have so many different opportunities that you you could 294 00:19:29,070 --> 00:19:32,760 be doing a lot of different things but you choose to serve 295 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:37,740 the people. And what what is it that gets you out of bed? 296 00:19:38,250 --> 00:19:40,410 Kody Kinsley: Well, the a larm 297 00:19:42,150 --> 00:19:43,350 Mehul Mankad: Thought you're gonna say your dog? 298 00:19:43,890 --> 00:19:48,060 Kody Kinsley: That's true, he does. Very well trained he 299 00:19:48,060 --> 00:19:52,110 tiptoes outside the door right at breakfast time. So that is 300 00:19:52,500 --> 00:19:56,460 very reliable. I mean, you know, I said some of this in the 301 00:19:56,460 --> 00:19:59,970 beginning and I'll say it again, when I grew up. I had the great 302 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:03,780 It privilege of growing up in North Carolina, and having 303 00:20:03,780 --> 00:20:10,230 access to terrific public schools to, you know, programs 304 00:20:10,230 --> 00:20:13,620 that made investments in me, even though I was one of the 305 00:20:13,650 --> 00:20:16,530 many kids at that time that did not have health insurance. And I 306 00:20:16,530 --> 00:20:20,790 grew up in a household where we, you know, we made use of many of 307 00:20:20,790 --> 00:20:23,400 the programs, the Petrarca programs that our department 308 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:26,610 runs, and it gave me, you know, gave me the opportunity to work 309 00:20:26,610 --> 00:20:31,380 hard and make a difference and, and given that opportunity. You 310 00:20:31,380 --> 00:20:34,680 know, I asked myself, What do I what do I owe to the people who 311 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:37,560 invested in me, how do I pay this forward? And what keeps me 312 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:40,650 interested in this work is the opportunity to make a 313 00:20:40,650 --> 00:20:43,920 difference. And and it's, you know, there's plenty of 314 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:44,940 opportunity right now. 315 00:20:46,230 --> 00:20:49,290 Mehul Mankad: Secretary Kinsley, thank you so much for your time. 316 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:51,030 Kody Kinsley: Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here. 317 00:20:54,350 --> 00:20:57,171 Announcer: The Re-Think and Re-Tool. Healthcare in the New 318 00:20:57,231 --> 00:21:00,292 Era podcast is produced by Alliance Health, a North 319 00:21:00,352 --> 00:21:03,714 Carolina public managed care organization. This show was 320 00:21:03,774 --> 00:21:07,555 produced by Brandon Alexander, our associate producer is Denise 321 00:21:07,616 --> 00:21:11,457 Dirks and executive producer is Doug fuller. View our show notes 322 00:21:11,517 --> 00:21:15,059 and hear other episodes at AllianceHealthPlan.org/ podcast. 323 00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:16,380 Thanks for tuning in.