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Announcer: Thanks for joining
the Re-think and Re-Tool podcast

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with Mehul Mankad, MD where we
take a look at the people side

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of healthcare and new ideas
about enhancing overall

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wellbeing. So welcome. The
doctor is in the house.

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Mehul Mankad: Welcome to Re-Think
and Re-Tool sponsored by Alliance

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Health. This is Meul Mankad,
psychiatrist and Chief Medical

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Officer for Alliance. Today on
Re-Think and Re-Tool, we're gonna

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start with a recipe. You take
one part, first generation

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college student, one part all
ACC linebacker and two time team

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champion at the University of
North Carolina, one part NFL pro

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football player for the Miami
Dolphins and one part graduate

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degree in mental health
counseling. Mix that all

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together and what do you get?
Well, you get Dwight Hollier,

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Senior Associate Athletic
Director in Charge of student

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athlete health, wellbeing and
program outreach. I can't think

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of anyone I'd rather talk to
about the impact of athletics on

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the body and mind. Let's get
started. Mr. Dwight Hollier.

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Yes, sir. Thank you for joining
us on The re- think and re- tool

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podcast really appreciate you
taking some time with us.

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Dwight Hollier: Oh, Doc, I appreciate
the invitation. I'm excited to

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have this conversation. You
know, as you probably know, and

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part of the reason we're having
this conversation is mental

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health is it's pretty important
to me and, and something that I

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think I've worked my career to,
to work on.

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Mehul Mankad: I, you know, I
would love for us to get into

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that topic. When I think of
student athletes of any age, or,

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you know, old timers like me
that try to get out there and do

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you know, whatever we do, my
mind automatically goes to the

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benefits of athleticism
exercise, you know, that whole

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domain. You know, I think of
setting goals, I think of people

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achieving, I think of the pride
that people take and the joy

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that people experience
personally, and by watching

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others that they care about
succeed. And that's the easy

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part. What what is that leaving
out?

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Dwight Hollier: Well, you know, I think
that we do often focus on that

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part, the, I wouldn't call it
easy, but I think it is

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certainly beneficial. It is it
is gratifying, there are a lot

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of adjectives to describe that
side, that positive side of

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athletics. Underneath that,
though, is the the work that it

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takes in order to, to perform
it. And I'm at a university, so

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to perform at a unit university
level, at a D-1 university, on

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the college level period. And
even in high school, I mean,

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there's a tremendous amount of
study of preparation of

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preparing your body of, you
know, trying to fuel your body

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the right way. And, and, you
know, injuries happen. And there

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are a lot of in addition to that
there's the stressors of just

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being a student of having to
perform academically, taking

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test, writing papers, and and
not to mention the social

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aspects of college life. And
then on top of that, you throw a

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pandemic, in the mix. And, and
that creates a whole nother

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level of challenges for for
everyone, for everyone,

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including myself, in case you
know, I throw myself in that

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bucket. I mean it you know,
these last couple of years have

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been the most challenging, I
think, for a lot of people. And

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that's true for for athletes in
the way that they compete in in

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the things that they've had to
endure in order to be able to

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compete, and even the time when
they were not able to compete

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and for some of our athletes,
they were getting ready to

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perform. getting prepared, I
recall. We had an

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undefeated team that was on
their way to a terrific year.

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And we had to end that season in
the middle. And, and it was one

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of the most difficult
conversations to be a part of.

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No, we had other athletes who
were competing in a championship

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and didn't get to compete and
had to come back home because

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of, you know, everything shut
down. So there were some real

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challenges. And I'm using
challenges. But you know,

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there's probably a better
descriptor of that. Well, you

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know, I

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Mehul Mankad: think challenges.
I think that's, that's a great

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way to phrase it. And as you
were speaking, you know, and

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kind of thinking about your
background, as a mental health

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clinician yourself with that
training. It sounds like some of

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those challenges are internal,
that the person puts on

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themselves, their expectations,
both in their athletic life, and

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then in their life outside of
athletics, and trying to find

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that right balance. And then
some of those challenges, as you

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were speaking, are external,
right, they're either imposed by

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others, or random acts, that
happen to people that are really

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out of their control. And I just
wonder, if you're the person at

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the middle of all this, and
you're trying to make sense of

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the world? You know, what sort
of guidance do you give to those

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student athletes?

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Dwight Hollier: Well, one thing I will
say is, is, we have a fantastic

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sports psychology in counseling
program. We have three full time

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clinicians that work in our
athletic department, led by Dr.

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Jenny Shannon, who's a sports
performance psychologist, along

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with Brendan Carr, Dr. Brendan
Carr, who's also a sports and

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performance psychologist, and
Cydnia Young, who is a, who

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is a licensed clinical social
worker. And, you know, the three

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of them work to support our
student athletes in a terrific

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way. And so, you know, as far as
you know, how do we communicate

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to the student athletes who find
themselves in those challenging

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situations? You know, I honestly
leave it to our our resident

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experts to do that. But I think
it's, it's, you know, one

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understanding that the
landscape is very different than

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it was when I was a student
athlete, you know, when we are,

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we're in a different place,
where, when I was a student

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athlete, we were told to suck it
up, get your butt back out there

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were strong, you know, you
brushed that off, you get back

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out there, you shake it off, in
and don't dare cry when, what is

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that a tear? You know, it's a
different world now. And I think

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one of the great things that
we've been able to do is just

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have conversations about mental
health out in the open. In in

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making it plain, you know, last
week, we had a mental health

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forum that we, that was
organized through our mental

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health group. And it was a
mental health TED Talk, style

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conversations and we had six,
five or six student-athletes get

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up and do a TED talk about their
own mental health challenges.

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And the room was filled with
their colleagues, their

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classmates, other student
athletes, and it is one of the

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most powerful things that that
I've been a part of. And I think

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that's one of the one of
the teal keys to really

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addressing the challenges around
mental health is just having

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conversations. It's just putting
it out there. It's it's making

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it plain making it part of the
everyday conversations, and

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not hiding it in a way that it's
been hidden for so many

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communities in the past and so
many people in the past, so the

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more that we can do that, the
more student-athletes will have

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the comfort to speak up and come
forward when they find

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themselves faced with
challenges.

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Mehul Mankad: That sounds great.
We are going to take a quick

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break. But when we come back, we
are going to hear about Dwight's

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guilty pleasure.

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Unknown: At Alliance. We empower
communities. We work through a

0:09:56.250,0:09:59.970
system of care to build on
strengths of individuals for

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partnerships, improve access to
services, and tell the story of

0:10:04.830,0:10:08.910
the people we serve in a more
complete way. By providing the

0:10:08.910,0:10:12.630
diverse communities we serve the
tools they need to succeed from

0:10:12.660,0:10:16.800
education and training, to the
development of care guidelines

0:10:17.100,0:10:20.670
to wayfinding through the
system, we enable people to lead

0:10:20.670,0:10:25.200
healthier, more satisfying
lives. That's the Alliance way.

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Mehul Mankad: All right, we are
back with Dwight Hollier from

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UNC athletics. So let's get to
the bottom of the matter the the

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critical issue, and that is
breakfast cereal. What does

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Dwight Hollier eat in the
morning?

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Dwight Hollier: Well, I don't eat
breakfast cereal. Now, but I

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have a favorite from when I was
a kid growing up in it is

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Captain Crunch.

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Mehul Mankad: Captain Crunch.
And what is it about Captain?

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Well,

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Dwight Hollier: you know, I've thought
a lot a lot about that. And I

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think the alore was that we
couldn't afford Captain Crunch.

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So when we got it, it was really
really special. It was really special.

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So I think the fact that it was
one of those high cost things

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that you know, when you get it,
it's it's, it's you know, it's

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yeah, I Oh, that's a special
comparisons in my mind to

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nowadays. And it's, it was just
it was it was a special thing?

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Because it was no, it was
something that you didn't have

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very often. And when you when
you had it, you treasured it.

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Yeah, it also disappeared in the
day, but it was good eats.

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Mehul Mankad: All right, well,
if I if I see you on campus, I

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will try to get you a bowl of
Captain Crunch, you may or may

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not eat it. So, Dwight, I wanted
to see if you had some thoughts

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about something I've noticed
with a little bit of a younger

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crowd than the folks that
you work with. But my guess is,

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as they age, you know, they do
come in to you with the same

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background. And that is what I
what I at least have noticed

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over the past decade or so is I
don't know what the right word

0:12:40.890,0:12:46.560
is. But the professionalization
of children's athletics. You

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know, when I was a kid, there
were different seasons, for

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different sports, everyone kind
of agreed. And it was kind of

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the pinnacle for a lot of kids
in middle school or high school

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to get to play on the A team or
the varsity team, or, you know,

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whatever it's called for that
year of their school. And that

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was kind of the end all like if,
you know, if you're like, you

0:13:08.760,0:13:11.400
know, on the varsity football
team like that, that's, that's

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where you want it to be. I'm
seeing something so different

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now with with year-round sports,
not only the pressure, but

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the cost, the loss of, you know,
weekends, for the parents,

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they're traveling all over the
the region, sometimes the country.

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And the ability for students to
cross-train and pick up

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different skills is I, in my
opinion, it's lost, all in the

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service, of trying to be
something. And I wonder about

0:13:45.960,0:13:50.430
the impacts that you see on the
body and on the mind of these

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kids and in you know, whether
there is a benefit and a

0:13:53.460,0:13:55.230
disadvantage. I'm curious.

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Dwight Hollier: Yeah, I think that
there is one there that is that

0:14:01.379,0:14:04.139
is definitely something that you
see a lot of is the

0:14:04.469,0:14:08.429
specialization that that is
happening of athletes

0:14:08.429,0:14:13.019
specializing in a particular
sport and it becomes a year

0:14:13.019,0:14:18.659
round. Basketball is the easiest
one to point to when you talk

0:14:18.659,0:14:23.549
about a you and a lot of the
programs that again, have

0:14:23.549,0:14:28.559
you playing basketball year
round. And you're right, we're

0:14:28.559,0:14:32.099
not when I was coming up, we
tried to play a little bit of

0:14:32.099,0:14:40.169
everything and I think that that
that opportunity to to play

0:14:40.169,0:14:45.479
various sports also helped
develop muscles necessary to for

0:14:45.479,0:14:51.839
longevity and sports. And one of
the things that has been brought

0:14:51.839,0:14:58.649
to light in the last 10 or 15
years is that those who, who end

0:14:58.649,0:15:03.569
up specializing in and sports
could potentially have a higher

0:15:03.569,0:15:08.279
incidence of certain injuries,
stress injuries, because there's

0:15:08.879,0:15:13.169
the sport that they've only
focused on one certain set of

0:15:13.169,0:15:19.229
muscle group, that can
create some challenges. I know

0:15:19.229,0:15:24.509
that there are also sport
coaches who would like to have

0:15:24.509,0:15:28.619
access to a great athlete who is
overdoing one thing, and you'd

0:15:28.619,0:15:31.859
like to have them and have an
opportunity to work with them.

0:15:33.989,0:15:40.469
But I think that the
conversation, you will want the

0:15:40.469,0:15:44.459
opportunity, right, so the
opportunity that a lot of young

0:15:44.459,0:15:52.439
people see. And, you know, I was
one of them that it was, it was

0:15:53.189,0:15:58.859
the opportunity to go to
college, or Yeah, through

0:15:58.859,0:16:06.059
through sports, or maybe the
military, you know, but that

0:16:06.059,0:16:11.099
was, those were, those were my
options. There was no money

0:16:11.129,0:16:16.919
available for me to go to
college any other way. And I

0:16:16.919,0:16:21.659
think that that influences a lot
of young people in their

0:16:21.659,0:16:26.819
families, and see this as a way
out or an opportunity, and we'll

0:16:27.029,0:16:33.839
put up whatever they can in
order to pay for covered that

0:16:33.839,0:16:39.869
expense to work, work out with a
particular person or to play a

0:16:39.869,0:16:43.919
you and travel team. And we'll
do engage in fundraisers,

0:16:43.919,0:16:48.479
whatever it takes to get there.
And I and I think that that's,

0:16:48.929,0:16:52.949
that's important for for a lot
of folks, and it would have been

0:16:52.949,0:16:55.559
important for me, to be honest.

0:16:55.710,0:16:59.040
Mehul Mankad: So it's two sided,
I hear you loud and clear. I

0:16:59.040,0:17:05.220
wonder if there is a particular
type of stress that comes with

0:17:05.460,0:17:10.140
that sort of commitment? I don't
know what your thoughts are in

0:17:10.140,0:17:10.640
that regard.

0:17:12.270,0:17:17.220
Dwight Hollier: Um, you know, I don't
know, I think some of it is, is

0:17:17.700,0:17:22.890
the kind of stress? Well, one,
everyone's going to experience

0:17:22.890,0:17:26.190
it different, you know, whatever
that stress is what you know,

0:17:26.190,0:17:30.900
you got five guys on a team on,
you know, all five guys are

0:17:30.900,0:17:34.260
going to have different stress
and will react to those

0:17:34.260,0:17:40.200
stressors differently. But there
are stressors, you know, from

0:17:40.530,0:17:44.550
the pressures, they may feel
from, from family, the pressure

0:17:44.580,0:17:50.730
to be successful. And some of it
is just pressure that that they

0:17:50.880,0:17:56.850
put on themselves. So, it really
depends on from person to

0:17:56.850,0:18:00.960
person, what that what that
pressure is, or what that

0:18:01.620,0:18:06.570
stressor is, and how they react
to those stressors.

0:18:06.930,0:18:10.170
Mehul Mankad: I wonder if there
is an I don't know if this has

0:18:10.170,0:18:12.600
been studied. So I'd have to
look this up myself, whether

0:18:12.600,0:18:16.710
there's potentially a greater
risk of early burnout, or

0:18:16.710,0:18:20.280
disillusionment, if that is a
sport that the child has been

0:18:20.280,0:18:23.940
playing 12 months, a year, you
know, for 10 years before they

0:18:23.940,0:18:25.140
even get to college.

0:18:26.460,0:18:29.520
Dwight Hollier: Yeah, I think that
that's a real possibility. And,

0:18:29.550,0:18:34.140
and, and there have been
examples, in my three and a half

0:18:34.140,0:18:38.880
years here in the athletic
department that, you know,

0:18:38.880,0:18:42.000
athletes who say, you know, I'm
done, I've done this long

0:18:42.000,0:18:47.220
enough. And, you know, I don't
know, I'm not attributing that

0:18:47.220,0:18:50.670
to anything in particular, but I
mean, that could potentially be

0:18:50.670,0:18:55.920
it is, is, you know, this is run
its course with me, and I'm

0:18:55.920,0:19:02.070
tired and, and I think I'm done
in and, you know, at the same

0:19:02.070,0:19:05.130
time, you have parents who are
pushing back and saying, you

0:19:05.130,0:19:09.030
know, you know, or suggesting
that, you know, you need to keep

0:19:09.030,0:19:09.690
pushing through.

0:19:10.139,0:19:14.729
Mehul Mankad: Right, right,
delicate balance, for sure. As

0:19:14.729,0:19:22.169
you think about your footprint,
in the university and in

0:19:22.199,0:19:29.849
athletics, you've you've carved
out a very specific role. What

0:19:31.319,0:19:34.889
keeps you going, why do you do
what you do?

0:19:36.630,0:19:42.120
Dwight Hollier:  That's a great
question. And, you know, you

0:19:42.120,0:19:48.810
know, one thing I'll say is,
this place where I am, has been

0:19:48.810,0:19:53.970
special to me since I was 17.
Since the first time I came on

0:19:53.970,0:20:00.540
campus, it's been a place that
I've really loved and I've been

0:20:00.540,0:20:06.600
able to, you know, take the
things that I learned here, or,

0:20:06.630,0:20:09.690
you know, one of the things that
I learned to love while I was

0:20:09.690,0:20:15.270
here was was psychology that I
took as an elective. And ended

0:20:15.270,0:20:20.100
up double majoring in psychology
was one of those majors because,

0:20:20.340,0:20:27.390
you know, kind of became very
intrigued. Fast forward got a

0:20:27.390,0:20:34.680
chance to play in the NFL had a
good experience going, but about

0:20:34.680,0:20:38.970
year, six or seven, I was, they
were calling me the old dude in

0:20:38.970,0:20:45.120
the locker room. And, you know,
I was like, 28. So, so I, I took

0:20:45.120,0:20:47.880
that to say, hey, you probably
should start preparing for

0:20:47.880,0:20:50.880
something else. And, and
psychology again, was one of

0:20:50.880,0:20:54.330
those things just spoke to me.
So I decided to get a master's

0:20:54.330,0:20:57.510
degree in finished that before I
finished playing down in Miami,

0:20:58.170,0:21:04.230
and then was out of the game a
year later in, went to work

0:21:04.230,0:21:10.620
right away. And, and again, the
work spoke to me it was, you

0:21:10.620,0:21:13.410
know, it's something that I feel
like I'm supposed to be doing.

0:21:13.650,0:21:19.890
And I attribute that a lot to
my, to my family, you know, I

0:21:19.890,0:21:21.990
mentioned, you know, we didn't
have a whole lot when I was

0:21:21.990,0:21:25.530
growing up, but no matter what
we had, we had our door open to

0:21:25.530,0:21:33.030
others. And, and I think that's
the part of me, the counselor

0:21:33.090,0:21:40.500
wanting to help others. That's
where it comes from. And, and

0:21:41.190,0:21:45.450
doing that work, having a chance
to go and work at the NFL and

0:21:45.450,0:21:49.650
support and serve the the NFL
brotherhood and then come back

0:21:49.650,0:21:54.660
here to a place that, again, is
very special to me and my family

0:21:54.660,0:22:00.390
and met my wife here. You know,
it's, it's a really, really

0:22:00.390,0:22:06.240
special opportunity to continue
to serve and help provide

0:22:06.300,0:22:09.450
opportunities for student
athletes and student athletes

0:22:09.450,0:22:14.280
who were like me who were first
generation student athletes and

0:22:14.700,0:22:19.380
in, in, you know, make sure that
we have the right resources in

0:22:19.380,0:22:24.510
place in that, you know, in
ultimately that their their

0:22:24.510,0:22:30.270
mental health is well taken care
of. I think that that's what I'm

0:22:30.300,0:22:34.590
supposed to be doing. And, and
what better place to do it. And

0:22:34.710,0:22:38.670
then in Blue Heaven, you know,
it's, it's just a really special

0:22:38.670,0:22:43.710
place. And, you know, obviously
I'm biased. I'm really biased

0:22:43.710,0:22:48.240
about this place. But it is it
is pretty special.

0:22:49.680,0:22:52.830
Mehul Mankad: Dwight hollyer,
thank you so much for joining

0:22:52.830,0:22:53.330
us.

0:22:54.300,0:22:55.200
Dwight Hollier: Thank you for having
me.

0:22:56.400,0:22:59.430
Announcer: The Re-Think and
Re-Tool Healthcare in the New Era

0:22:59.430,0:23:03.270
podcast is produced by Alliance
Health,a North Carolina public

0:23:03.270,0:23:06.300
managed care organization. This
show was produced by Brandon

0:23:06.300,0:23:09.930
Alexander our associate producer
is Denise Dirks and executive

0:23:09.930,0:23:12.960
producer is Doug fuller. View
our show notes and hear other

0:23:12.960,0:23:17.100
episodes at Alliance health
plan.org forward slash podcast.

0:23:17.160,0:23:18.450
Thanks for tuning in.